724 Claire Hughes Johnson, Building Stripe from 160 to 6,000+ Employees — How to Take Radical Ownership of Your Life and Career
This is a OPEN AI summary of the Tim Ferriss Podcast #724- visit www.TinyTim.blog for more AI summaries, or www.Tim.blog for the official Tim Ferriss Podcasts
Tim Ferriss interviews Claire Hughes Johnson, a former Google executive, about her second operating principle "Say the thing you think you cannot say." This principle was inspired by Fred Kofman, who left his career as an accountant to become a leadership coach and wrote the book Conscious Business. Johnson learned this lesson during a management and leadership training at Google and believes it is important for individuals to authentically develop their own operating principles.
Google was growing rapidly and investing in management training with the help of Axialent. One of the key lessons they learned was to detoxify their inner dialogue and give direct feedback, which is a valuable leadership skill. Tim Ferriss and Claire Hughes Johnson discuss the importance of taking risks and communicating effectively in both personal and business settings. An example is given about using quarterly business reviews at Stripe to have open discussions about goals and strategies.
The speaker shares a story about a situation where they observed a team becoming defensive and angry during a product review meeting. They intervened and asked about a potential issue with another team's work, leading to a discussion about potential duplication and dependency. This showed leadership and resulted in resolving the issue.
The conversation between Ferriss and Johnson discusses the importance of detoxifying judgment in relationships and how to approach uncomfortable conversations. They also touch on the concept of victim versus player in managing or interacting with others, and the importance of taking responsibility.
The conversation discusses the issue of people playing the victim instead of taking responsibility in the workplace. The speaker believes that it is easier to coach younger employees out of this mindset, but it becomes harder with more experienced employees who have been successful operating in this way. The speaker suggests using uncomfortable silence and listing out alternative actions as coaching techniques. They also mention using productivity tools to hold people accountable.
The speaker discusses a common pattern they have observed where individuals are not collaborative and struggle with getting work done. They use the technique of "going meta" to help the person become aware of their behavior and try to understand why it is happening. They also mention the difficulty of working with people who are either constantly playing the victim or overconfident in their abilities. The speaker emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and shares a book they recommend on the subject.
Claire Hughes Johnson recommends the book "To the Lighthouse" by Virginia Woolf, as it represents the potential of great literature to understand the human condition. She admires Woolf's role as a polymath and her feminist manifesto, despite some controversial personal views. The book is considered Woolf's most important novel and reflects her avant-garde writing style.
In this conversation, the speaker discusses two novels, Mrs. Dalloway and To the Lighthouse, and their authors Virginia Woolf and Jeanette Winterson. They compare the two books and highlight their themes of life, death, human connection, and motherhood. The speaker also reflects on the importance of reading fiction for building empathy and understanding the human condition.
The conversation discusses the importance of understanding different perspectives and emotional intelligence through reading books from various countries and watching high-quality films. It also touches on the efficiency of fiction in delivering truths compared to nonfiction. The speaker shares their personal experience with fiction and recommends specific works for different types of readers.
The interview discusses the use of magical realism in Latin American literature and how it can inspire creativity in business. The concept of a "working-with-me" document is also introduced as a way for managers to create a user manual for how to work with them. It is seen as a best practice for managing people.
The speaker, Claire Hughes Johnson, discusses her experience as a manager and how she was inspired by Urs Hlzle of Google to write a user manual for her team. She shares how she asked for feedback from her team and incorporated it into her document, which has remained largely unchanged since 2009. The manual covers practical information like communication preferences and decision-making processes.
The speaker, Spike, describes themselves as highly intuitive and data-driven. They believe in using both intuition and data to make decisions. They also discuss how they have learned to communicate their management style and preferences through a "working-with-me" document, which helps new team members understand how to work with them effectively. This document has been helpful in high-growth environments where team members may change frequently.
Tim Ferriss and Claire Hughes Johnson discuss the importance of making implicit structures and beliefs explicit in order to improve working relationships. They also talk about the concept of creating a "working-with-me" document, which outlines preferences and expectations for communication and decision-making. Claire's document received some criticism for being self-absorbed, but she explains that it is intended to reduce anxiety and promote honesty. They also touch on the topic of different generations having different email protocols. Overall, their discussion revolves around the idea of openly communicating and setting clear expectations in order to work effectively together.
Johnson and Tim discuss the importance of making implicit things explicit, especially in the workplace. They also recommend a short film called "An Irish Goodbye" and Tim shares his request from Kevin Kelly to ask guests about their email policies. It is noted that even high-performing individuals struggle with email management.
Claire Hughes Johnson discusses her experience with email and shares some helpful tips. She recalls a leadership training at Genentech where executives had to process a large number of emails in a short amount of time, similar to a Japanese game show. She prioritizes emails from certain people and uses labels to organize investor updates.
The speaker, Claire Hughes Johnson, shares her experience of not being able to keep up with her investor updates and feeling guilty about it. She now sets expectations with people she invests in and asks them to contact her directly if they need something from her. This has also become a management lesson for her and she encourages others to renegotiate their commitments if they feel overwhelmed. She also suggests trying to project your future self before making a decision in the moment.
Claire Hughes Johnson discusses the importance of being mindful of our time and commitments, and not always feeling the need to say yes to every request. She shares a personal experience of realizing the trade-off between money and time, and how it led her to prioritize a career with more control over her time. She also mentions the value of taking time to think before responding to requests, rather than immediately saying yes and potentially regretting it later.
The speaker discusses their struggle with managing their time and setting boundaries in order to prioritize what is important to them. They share a personal example of being asked to join a board and having to renegotiate their commitment due to conflicting priorities. They also mention a quote from Ron Heifetz or Marty Linsky about taking ownership of one's time and not attributing it to others.
The concept of "adaptive leadership" involves the idea of disappointing people at a manageable rate. This can be difficult for leaders, especially when it comes to time management. Leadership is seen as unpredictable and unknowable, as it involves having a vision and convincing others to follow. The analogy used is climbing a mountain that has never been climbed before. A concrete example is the story of creating 24/7 global support for Stripe, which was a challenging task for the speaker as a leader. It took time and hiring talented individuals to achieve success.
The speaker reflects on a time when they made a public declaration without a clear plan and ended up disappointing, but eventually found a way to achieve their goal. They discuss the importance of being authentic and honest in facing challenges and the concept of renegotiation when facing unexpected obstacles. The speaker also shares their experience in prioritizing and addressing different tasks as COO of a company.
The speaker discusses a challenging experience in a startup company where they were not able to prioritize and address important tasks, leading to difficulties in meeting sales goals and hiring employees. Despite conflicting opinions with the founder, they maintained a positive attitude and were able to eventually achieve success. They also emphasize the importance of having a strong sense of self outside of work in order to handle difficult situations.
The speaker reflects on a past experience where they were initially skeptical about a goal, but were convinced by others to pursue it. They discuss how they dealt with making progress and learning from mistakes in a culture focused on learning. The speaker also talks about facing challenges and making decisions as a leader.
Claire Hughes Johnson faced a difficult decision of whether to focus on leading support or building a new project. She struggled with managing her large number of direct reports and was reminded by a former colleague about the importance of good management practices. Ultimately, she compromised by delegating tasks to talented individuals and finding a balance between her various responsibilities. She advises others in similar situations to consider the opportunity cost and negotiate at a higher level, prioritizing the most important goals and resources.
The speaker discusses the importance of effectively renegotiating commitments and responsibilities, especially in the case of unforeseen conflicts. They advise taking responsibility and offering context and vulnerability when communicating changes to others. They also mention the potential for judgement, particularly for women, and suggest finding alternative solutions if possible. Ultimately, the speaker emphasizes the importance of being honest about one's priorities and limitations in order to ensure the best outcome for all parties involved.
The speaker discusses the importance of using good language and respecting others' time and priorities. They mention the need to be self-aware and honest in managing commitments and investments. They also talk about setting personal rules for avoiding unnecessary meetings and commitments.
In a meeting, a senior person in a position of leadership should ask questions instead of stating their opinion to encourage participation and learning from others. As a coach for leaders, it is important to build their confidence in their instincts rather than telling them what to do. This approach allows for true learning and development. The speaker also shares personal rules they have set for themselves to avoid jumping in with answers and instead allowing others to come to their own conclusions.
The conversation discusses different tactics for handling requests and commitments, including saying "no" and setting boundaries. The idea of using time, treasure, talent, and testimony as criteria for making decisions is also mentioned.
Johnson and Ferriss discuss how to utilize one's talent and time effectively. They also touch on how to give and receive honest feedback when hiring and developing talent. Johnson suggests asking specific ranking questions to get an accurate assessment of a person's abilities.
The conversation is about managing others effectively and the importance of self-awareness as the foundation for achieving results through teams. The speaker shares their perspective on why self-awareness is crucial and suggests using work style assessments to understand one's defaults in order to be more effective in working with others.
Personality typing tests, such as Myers-Briggs, DiSC, Enneagram, and StrengthsFinder, categorize people on a horizontal axis of introversion vs. extroversion and a vertical axis of task-orientation vs. people-orientation. These tests can be useful for understanding one's own default settings and those of others in order to create an effective work environment. However, it is important not to stereotype or generalize based on these categories. Cultivating self-awareness and understanding the default settings of others can lead to more productive meetings and interactions.
Tim Ferriss and Claire Hughes Johnson discuss different work style assessments, such as Myers-Briggs and Insights Discovery, and how they can be helpful in understanding one's personality and behavior. They also mention the Big Five personality test and how it can reveal important traits like agreeableness and conscientiousness. The two also touch on the importance of having a diverse team with different work styles. They also briefly mention their colleague Patrick Collison's voracious appetite for knowledge, but joke that he has never seen the movie John Wick.
Johnson and Tim Ferriss discuss leadership and the ability to say no and prioritize effectively. They mention people who excel at this, such as Sheryl, a colleague of Johnson's who is efficient and decisive. They also discuss how some people use "cleanup crews" to handle uncomfortable situations, and admire those who can be direct and call things out. Johnson also explains her decision to limit the number of boards she serves on, citing a desire to be helpful to specific individuals rather than just serving as a general service.
Time is a valuable resource and serving on boards can take up a lot of it. It's important to carefully consider commitments and renegotiate them if necessary. Managing high performers requires individualized approaches and spending more time with them.
The speaker discusses the common issue of high performers not receiving enough attention and investment, leading to burnout or seeking opportunities elsewhere. They introduce the concept of "pushers" and "pullers" as two types of high performers and how they should be managed differently. The speaker also mentions their book, "Scaling People", which includes various frameworks and resources for managing high performers. They share personal experiences of being a "martyr" and the importance of setting boundaries with workloads.
In this conversation, Claire Hughes Johnson discusses the concept of martyring oneself in the workplace and taking on too much responsibility. She also talks about the importance of delegation, saying no, and setting boundaries. She emphasizes the need to recognize different strengths and weaknesses in a team and utilize them effectively to achieve success. She also mentions her book, "Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building," which offers practical advice and tools for effective leadership.
The conversation between Tim Ferriss and Claire Hughes Johnson covers various topics and has provided stimulating recommendations. The digital content discussed can be found through links in the show notes on Tim's podcast website. The episode can be easily found by searching for Claire's name. Tim ends the podcast with a reminder to be kind to oneself and thanks listeners for tuning in.
https://tim.blog/2024/02/27/claire-hughes-johnson/
